Thread on Modular Ford about Lightning cease production

[DNeinstadt]

CLICK ME (http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17520)

Autoweek article:

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101065 (http://)

Dan

[Retics4me]

What a waste !!! The should kill that funky colored cobra instead:mad:

[Steelgrave]

Oh yeah? well my brother's sister's cousin's uncle's neighbor's buddy's friend's aunt's husband's boss said.....

:rolleyes: :grin:

(Internet rumors should be pissing off the pope)

[hh505]

As much as I think it sucks, what does a bunch of emails or faxes do? It seems to me that no matter what we all want, the SVT is going to be history. FoMoCo limited the SVT product line availability by not selling them at all dealerships, and being an SVT dealer costs a chunk of $.
I don't like it any more than any of you, but I just don't see how they will change their minds. :confused:

[BOSS 302]

Heres what i think about that :yellin: : :mad2: :cry: :jawdrop: : what more can i say

[SSHFTY1]

Sad is the one thing that comes to my mind when I read this stuff. But I must add 1 thing about all of this, for those of you that do not know me I am a Ford employee at TCAP. I can all but gaurentee you guys that this is a much larger problem than SVT, meaning Ford is losing it's ass in the marketplace right know (I see it everyday at the plant) Ford has made a corperate decision to get back to the core business ( SVT is not core business) as much as that hurts to say it is reality for a big business trying to keep it's head above water. So in closing maybe the next time you guys are out looking for that new vechicle look at Ford instead of a competitor, then maybe we can save SVT from the trash can (if it is true) Thank you Asst. Dir Dan C

[Retics4me]

If this is the case then Ford better start working on quality issues and have a standard 10/100,000 mile warranty . My buddy bought a new Galant for less than a Taurus and its hell of alot nicer! I myself am a loyalist and would not buy a new import car but most people dont think like me .
Maybe they loose money because the union has them by the balls and pays the laborors crazy amounts of money ;) ;)




Originally posted by sshfty1
Sad is the one thing that comes to my mind when I read this stuff. But I must add 1 thing about all of this, for those of you that do not know me I am a Ford employee at TCAP. I can all but gaurentee you guys that this is a much larger problem than SVT, meaning Ford is losing it's ass in the marketplace right know (I see it everyday at the plant) Ford has made a corperate decision to get back to the core business ( SVT is not core business) as much as that hurts to say it is reality for a big business trying to keep it's head above water. So in closing maybe the next time you guys are out looking for that new vechicle look at Ford instead of a competitor, then maybe we can save SVT from the trash can (if it is true) Thank you Asst. Dir Dan C

[SSHFTY1]

Jason, I could go on for hours on this topic but for sake of time I will keep it simple. We may make a good wage but by no means do we have the company by the balls, I would say it is much more 50 50 after the last contract offer. Now what does hurt us is retirees they suck all the profits out of the company. But I hope to be 1 someday so I am not really bitchin... Lastly fords quality is greatly improved and continues to do so, it is just like you said you have a misinformed friend who made a $ and $ only decision to buy that car and got lucky with the car so far. I don't mean to come off sounding harsh but as you all know I am 1 proud Ford employee and will not back down to anyone ever!!! Ecspecially foreign **** that costs pennies on the dallor to build and import. Thank you for your support of Ford Motor Co it is just to bad more people realized what is happening in the auto market to the domestic manufacturers..:confused:

[Steelgrave]

Ford's problems go way beyond the retiree's benefits. How many billions came out of ford for the Firestone fiasco? :grin:

I don't doubt for a second the quality of work the plant assembler's put into the vehicles they build, but if the design of the vehicle is so outdated and/or poor, it doesn't matter.

Look at the Ranger for example. I'm sure Dan & Shan and everyone that build it do the best they can on it, but it's old and underpowered compared to the rest of the light truck market. When was the last time it was fully redesigned (I don't think ever)? Heck the mustang is having it's first redesign since 1979 (and the chassis dates back even further than that).

Another thing to remember is most of the imports sold in this country are built in this country too. You guys can all say what you want about the imports, but I don't hear any Honda, Toyota, or Nissan employees complaining about their wages.

Finally, this hasn't been just a Ford problem, as GM and Chrysler have had just as many issues of quality for just as long. The US makes are catching up on quality, but they still have a ways to go. Unfortunately quality has to start at the top, in the design phase, not in the plants. (and that doesn't just apply to cars, but everything)

But I will say out of the "American" auto manufacturers, Ford seems to offer the least to me at this point (although they are the only ones with a pony car till 2007).

[Steelgrave]

Originally posted by sshfty1
Ford has made a corperate decision to get back to the core business ( SVT is not core business) as much as that hurts to say it is reality for a big business trying to keep it's head above water.

This sounds like you've been told this about SVT by Ford????

[SSHFTY1]

Hi Doug, To try and answer your ? the best way I can lets just say you hear alot of crap everyday and it is being able to tell fact from fiction that is important. No 1 has told me directly that SVT is gone but I have heard threw very credible sources for many months now that Ford is changing internally and refocusing their money, man power, resources, and Ideas on different things. Now I have never claimed to be very smart, but Ford needs help in a big way and soon if it is going to remain a leading manufacturer of quality automobiles. If things don't turn around soon for us I may need an ap from your work so I can make ends meet around here if you catch my drift. Lastly Ford lost over 2 billion $'s in the Firestone deal and has sued to get most of that back, and won until firestone appealed and has had this thing stuck in the courts for way to long now. At least that is what I have been told. Lastly I don't have all day to discuss what the foreign brands do and don't make here but I can tell you that they don't bitch because they are given different forms of monies and rewards for there efforts that the UAW does not give to us. We have tried to unionize the foreign makers plants and up til now have been denied. Also please try not to forget where the profits from our wallets head as soon as you buy that foreign job?????? Not to the schools or communities but back over to good ole they bombed us but people forget to easy Japan. NOW AIN"T THAT GREAT? PHUCK THEM and I ani't kidding be cool Dan

[Kafn8td]

I would be curious to see some facts on how much $ is sent out of country on a foreign (?) car built in the USA.
It is my understanding that like most industries, volume is the driver for profit and not perceived value in the car industry. Do I buy a car on quality? No! I believe that most cars are pretty well built, but I do listen to others feedback on a model/manufacturer. Do I buy a car on price? No! It is a factor however.
I have always been a Ford supporter, mainly because of the F-150 and Mustangs. Would I buy other brands? Yes. In fact we are close to having to buy a couple of cars now and will consider all. I would like to have the 500 as a work car, however for what they are asking...not a chance - the perceived value in my eyes is not there. Will I look at AV Ford first? Yes! The value they have provided during purchase and after purchase service has been above and beyond anyone I have ever dealt with. Value...it is perceived...

[lightningboy00]

Maybe you don't see the value in the five hundred because the first ones of a new model at dealerships usually are pretty loaded, optionwise. This isn't just a bigger taurus. Where else can you get all wheel drive, comfortable seating for 5 and enough trunk space for all of their luggage for about $25,000? Go with the FWD one and drop it to $23,500 or so. I know the 3.0 v6 isn't a speed demon, but 0-60 in 8.5 isn't too bad. And don't forget this puppy will get 21 mpg city, 29 highway. Drive one and judge it on its own merits. You are absolutely right on perceived value being the key to buying or passing on a car. What am I getting and what will it cost? I do feel as strongly as Dan about foreign vehicles in our country. So the workers here get paid to assemble them, but where are all of the profits going?

[Steelgrave]

Originally posted by sshfty1
Hi Doug, To try and answer your ? the best way I can lets just say you hear alot of crap everyday and it is being able to tell fact from fiction that is important. No 1 has told me directly that SVT is gone but I have heard threw very credible sources for many months now that Ford is changing internally and refocusing their money, man power, resources, and Ideas on different things. Now I have never claimed to be very smart, but Ford needs help in a big way and soon if it is going to remain a leading manufacturer of quality automobiles. If things don't turn around soon for us I may need an ap from your work so I can make ends meet around here if you catch my drift. Lastly Ford lost over 2 billion $'s in the Firestone deal and has sued to get most of that back, and won until firestone appealed and has had this thing stuck in the courts for way to long now. At least that is what I have been told. Lastly I don't have all day to discuss what the foreign brands do and don't make here but I can tell you that they don't bitch because they are given different forms of monies and rewards for there efforts that the UAW does not give to us. We have tried to unionize the foreign makers plants and up til now have been denied. Also please try not to forget where the profits from our wallets head as soon as you buy that foreign job?????? Not to the schools or communities but back over to good ole they bombed us but people forget to easy Japan. NOW AIN"T THAT GREAT? PHUCK THEM and I ani't kidding be cool Dan

Man are you one sided or what?:grin: I can see why I suppose.

Ok so if the "import" manufacturers aren't union and are getting paid in other ways and are happy, what are you complaining about them for? It's entirely possible that they are bringing home more than the UAW people because they have no union dues to pay.

As for where the profits go, I'm getting pretty tired of the excuse that they go "to those bombing jap's" or some such ****.

1) The Japanese sneak attacked us at Pearl Harbor in an effort to cripple our military so severely that there would be no war, and we'd go back to shipping them goods, which we had cut off. Now remember, which country OBLITERATED not one, but TWO full size cities...Oh yeah we did:grin:

2) The profits from the sale of a new car from a manufacturer to a dealer go to the shareholders of the manufacturer (in simplistic terms). Who are the shareholders? In the 20th century it was easy to figure out but today with a global economy, it could be you or I.

The 2 largest pools of shareholders in any major corporation (like fortune 10) are typically 2 groups. (except for Microsoft, although Bill is an employee I spose hehehe)
A) Mutual Funds
B) The Employees

If your really that worried about it, get on the foreign markets and buy some stock in Toyota, Nissan, Audi etc. like the rest of the world.

I'm not going to take the time to look, but I wonder what the percentage is now of "offshore" ownership of Ford, and GM, and Toyota etc...

Take a look at the goods you own in your home right now. Your TV, stereo, microwave, Jackstands etc... The odds are a vast majority of it wasn't made in the US. The US economy as a whole is shifting from primarily being manufacturing to service oriented.

Take a look at Europe, why do you think they now have a common currency? It wasn't just a cool idea somewhat thought up. It's part of europe trying to compete on the world market with the likes of Asia and the US.

It's a global economy today. The basic business principals of the 60's and 70's don't apply in the same way any more.

[Kafn8td]

So if an L is built in Canada is it considered an import? What about a camary built in San Jose California? Or a Chrysler product? American built, but now owned by our other challenger during WW II.

[Steelgrave]

Originally posted by Kafn8td
So if an L is built in Canada is it considered an import? What about a camary built in San Jose California?

heh well depending on how you look at it, Harley Davidson motorcycles are imports, as over 85% of their parts are made outside the US.;)

The whole "Import/Domestic" line has become so blurred the last 10-15 years, you really can't even classify anything that way anymore.

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by Steelgrave
heh well depending on how you look at it, Harley Davidson motorcycles are imports, as over 85% of their parts are made outside the US.;)

The whole "Import/Domestic" line has become so blurred the last 10-15 years, you really can't even classify anything that way anymore.

Quick story: As many of you know, I am a New Holland dealer. A few years ago, New Holland got the bid from the state of Minnesota for a fleet of tractors, but since they are built in Britan, John deere contested the bid based on the fact that New Holland's were not "American Made" All the bidders(Cat, John Deere, Case, and New Holland) had to go back and bring a list of their componants and where they were built. New Holland ended up getting the bid. Even though they were the only tractor not assembled in the US, they were the most American made tractor of the group. Keep that in mind when shopping for your next American made John Deere lawn mower.

Brian

[SSHFTY1]

I think at the next meeting were gonna have 15 mins to wrap our hands with charmin and start swingin.:grin: No threat intended but seriously you maybe correct in the fact that I am swayed in my view of things. BUT I am not blind either, I only buy what I can when I can MADE IN THE USA is not just a saying to me. If anyone will remember back just a few years ago to the terrorist attacks a independent firm did a study on who and what or how much was given to the efforts in N.Y. You would have seen that 4 out of all manufacturers of automobiles in the U.S.A. gave to help. 4 I bet you can guess who they were and who they weren't, I'll give you the last 1 thou and Chryse will like this, VOLKSWAGON.. Not Toyota not Honda not 1 red cent from there fat on the American buck ass did they give to help here. Weird don't you think considering they make most of the money here, Where did it all go? Wait I know NOT HERE! So I know that this is just a huge can of worms for some people but I guess until you walk a mile in another mans shoes you just might not know the whole truth sometimes.......

[Steelgrave]

Originally posted by sshfty1
I think at the next meeting were gonna have 15 mins to wrap our hands with charmin and start swingin.:grin:


Charmin huh, I'm an Angel Soft guy myself... :grin:

Originally posted by sshfty1
No threat intended but seriously you maybe correct in the fact that I am swayed in my view of things. BUT I am not blind either, I only buy what I can when I can MADE IN THE USA is not just a saying to me.

...

So I know that this is just a huge can of worms for some people but I guess until you walk a mile in another mans shoes you just might not know the whole truth sometimes.......


Based on this conversation, I think you are blind. When was the last time you "walked a mile in someone else's shoes"? I suppose to relate it to this discussion it would be "when was the last time you owned an "import" for a few years? (something tells me you haven't)

Originally posted by sshfty1
If anyone will remember back just a few years ago to the terrorist attacks a independent firm did a study on who and what or how much was given to the efforts in N.Y. You would have seen that 4 out of all manufacturers of automobiles in the U.S.A. gave to help. 4 I bet you can guess who they were and who they weren't, I'll give you the last 1 thou and Chryse will like this, VOLKSWAGON.. Not Toyota not Honda not 1 red cent from there fat on the American buck ass did they give to help here. Weird don't you think considering they make most of the money here, Where did it all go? Wait I know NOT HERE!

I agree with you on this, but not sure it remotely relates to what we are talking about.;)

You have strong brand loyalty, and thats fine, but that's not gonna fix Ford's issues.

Ok to swing this back onto the hijacked topic, what exactly is your definition of "Made in the USA"???

[Steelgrave]

By the way Dan, I did some research this morning (yeah work was pretty slow). I found that the Honda Accord is comprised of 70% american made parts (american being US and canada), including the engine and transmission being made in the USA.

The Ford Sport-Trac is also 70% american made. However the engine is german made and the transmission is made in france.

(This is courtesy of usstuff.com)

So which one is more "american"?:grin:

(by the way, the tranny in your mustang is made in Mexico, but thats ok because of the Alamo right?:grin: )

[SSHFTY1]

I guess my whole point is I am way to close to this topic so it is hard to be understanding sometimes. Oh and I know there are foreign parts on american cars heck I see it everyday with the trannys and wire looms etc etc. When I mentioned contributions to the effort I was refering to the fact that when you buy an american nameplate you are also putting alttle something back into the communties that need the help, and when you buy something foreign well you can figure it out. Also people think that it is so great that they build there cars here now, o.k. cool but in all reality when you add a auto factory in essence you just closed 1 meaning the U.S. sells at a 16.5 million unit rate per year on average so when 1 of these competitors comes here and starts selling all these cars other manufacturers have to close their doors. Sad but very true, so and this is the funny part. The government thinks their doing us a favor buy letting the competion open up these factories that pay less and have less of an impact on the local economy to some respects, then 2 years later g.m. or ford or dodge just closed a plant of 2,500 people because they don't need that many units anymore. Boy that sucks why did that happen :drink: gee I wonder...

[Steelgrave]

Originally posted by sshfty1
I guess my whole point is I am way to close to this topic so it is hard to be understanding sometimes. Oh and I know there are foreign parts on american cars heck I see it everyday with the trannys and wire looms etc etc. When I mentioned contributions to the effort I was refering to the fact that when you buy an american nameplate you are also putting alttle something back into the communties that need the help, and when you buy something foreign well you can figure it out. Also people think that it is so great that they build there cars here now, o.k. cool but in all reality when you add a auto factory in essence you just closed 1 meaning the U.S. sells at a 16.5 million unit rate per year on average so when 1 of these competitors comes here and starts selling all these cars other manufacturers have to close their doors. Sad but very true, so and this is the funny part. The government thinks their doing us a favor buy letting the competion open up these factories that pay less and have less of an impact on the local economy to some respects, then 2 years later g.m. or ford or dodge just closed a plant of 2,500 people because they don't need that many units anymore. Boy that sucks why did that happen :drink: gee I wonder...

I'm sure people that built horse-drawn carriages felt the same way you do.:grin:

People ultimately vote with their pocketbooks. The problem is not the government letting some company build a factory, the problem is that people are buying what that factory produces. If the cars sucked, they wouldn't be bought, period.

Ford's problem isn't the government. It's the competition thats beating it on every level of the game. Ford and the union can try to blame it on whatever they want, but if the don't fundamentally fix the reason they're getting beat in the marketplace, they'll end up being bought by Toyota or something.

By the way how do you feel about Jaguar and Mazda?;)

[SSHFTY1]

That is a guestion I have pondered for sometime now, Truthfully the domestics for and g.m. especially have many foreign nameplates under their umbrella. For me the verdict is still out on anyone of them, personally I would not buy a one of them souly based on A planability probally. But my sis seems to have this idea that a Mazda Tribute is not a Ford Escape:confused: weird seeing as how it is built side by side with the Ford. I guess my point with that is people don't quite understand the auto business in general or how it may or may not effect it's people. Dan N and I were talking and he made a very good point about the american public in general when it comes to an automobile purchase, which opened my eyes wide to the possible answer to many of my unanswered questions. Basically Dan said the buying public in general just don't care about it as much as someone like me that has their whole life wrapped into it... Sad but very true, hell realistically when was the last time you looked at a Hyundai or Kia and your blood started pumping, if your like me probally never but you sure seem to see alot of them around all of a sudden... Guess I will never figure that one out. Be Cool SSHFTY1