Highly modded Cobra owners, PPRV or no?

[DNeinstadt]

Well? Tuners can't seem to figure out my hesitation problem. One said that they could fix it in the tune with the fuel pump tables, the other one (AT THE SAME TUNER) says to pull the PPRV.

Modded Mystic pulled his, success.

Could this be the mod that makes me want to keep the Cobra? I have had thoughts of selling for a big block classic muscle car.....

Dan

[Video_Master]

I have thought about pulling it, but I have seen many people get fixed with just the tune. If you really would like a BB Classic then I say go for that.

[DNeinstadt]

Yeah, I want a BBC either way, but James told me it can be fixed in the tune and I've gone through 3 tunes and it seems to be getting better but I've also been dealing with it for 3 months.

Ed recommended to pull the PPRV, those that did have instant resolution on the hestitation. Hard to say they are all coincidence...

It'd be hard to give up the pure speed of the Cobra for the BBC...

Dan

[Video_Master]

BBC can be made to go just as fast. You know that as well as I do.

[DNeinstadt]

True, but the handling, the A/C, etc. There are thigns that I wouldn't want in an old car and $ for $, the Cobra is more sophisticated. Which is good and bad.

I haven't put more than 50 miles on the Cobra in the last two months I don't think. I always say "drive it or sell it, don't sit on it". I'm just frustrated with it and I need to either fix it or sell it and with the recent birthday gift of the wideband I'm excited to fix it and I'm getting fired up to go drag racing but I want my car to run right first for obvious reasons. :)

Dan

[Video_Master]

well of course comparing a old car to a new you will have more ammenities, but you have to decide if that is what you want or do you want to pursue your dreams. Handling can be taken car of on a old car, yes it will cost some $$$, but it can be done. The 03/04's have been the best bang for the buck car producted yet for getting power and such out of them while still having all the nice luxuries.

[Grenade]

True, but the handling, the A/C, etc. There are thigns that I wouldn't want in an old car and $ for $, the Cobra is more sophisticated. Which is good and bad.

I haven't put more than 50 miles on the Cobra in the last two months I don't think. I always say "drive it or sell it, don't sit on it". I'm just frustrated with it and I need to either fix it or sell it and with the recent birthday gift of the wideband I'm excited to fix it and I'm getting fired up to go drag racing but I want my car to run right first for obvious reasons. :)

Dan
I don't understand the debate, Just do it and see what happens. You have people that will help you. Don't listen to Vm, he wants you to sell it. Your 66, is your old fast car. It will have lots of cubes, and a rockin stereo. Don't go No1Ford on me.

[Video_Master]

I don't understand the debate, Just do it and see what happens. You have people that will help you. Don't listen to Vm, he wants you to sell it. Your 66, is your old fast car. It will have lots of cubes, and a rockin stereo. Don't go No1Ford on me.


It is called Devils' advocate. I honestly do not care if he keeps it or sells it. He has talked for a long time about getting a BBC vehicle and if that is his dream they I say go for it.

[DNeinstadt]

We will. Don't worry Shawn. :)

I think VM wants me to do what I want to do. I'm OK with what he's telling me. It sounds like he's saying to do what I want because you can make the car what you want either way. I know where he's coming from.

Dan

[Grenade]

It is called Devils' advocate. I honestly do not care if he keeps it or sells it. He has talked for a long time about getting a BBC vehicle and if that is his dream they I say go for it.
It's called disagreeing with you. And yes I've noticed, you are the devils advocate on almost everything. But thats why we love you.

[Video_Master]

my whole thing is nobody should be forced to get/keep/sell something if they do not want to.

[prostang92]

WELL MY DOCTOR SAID i CANT GET RID OF WHAT i GOT??? SO how does that work?

[Video_Master]

WELL MY DOCTOR SAID i CANT GET RID OF WHAT i GOT??? SO how does that work?


Well that is your own problem. :)

[Grenade]

my whole thing is nobody should be forced to get/keep/sell something if they do not want to.
Nobody has to force Dan to keep his Cobra. I'm willing to help him get his mojo back for his car.

[prostang92]

its on topic.. you brought it up... LOL

[DNeinstadt]

Chris, they have ointments for that sort of thing??

Dan

[Warrlac]

When does this become a factor? My car is not heavily modded, so I am pretty sure it's nothing for me to be concerned about. Just curious.

Also, I'm thinking of ditching my Steeda Tri-ax. I think it shifts worse than the stock shifter. Will going to an MGW cure the notchy-ness? What will make it shift better?

WWL

[DNeinstadt]

Warren, I'm hearing around the 525rwhp mark. Somewhere around where I'm at! :P

As for the notchyness, that's what most people are after. You could try to use a rubber gasket to get rid of some noise and vibration. Cobrabob has some nice gaskets here:

http://www.stangshiftergaskets.com/

They are $6 and will quiet things down a little. Otherwise I'd suggest going back to the stock shifter with a different handle if you like the softer feel. I personally enjoy it being very deliberate where I shove that silly T56 handle! :)

Dan

[OrangeFox]

I guess I do not get it, what does PPRV stand for???? After my latest mods and getting it tuned on Friday, I am having some stalling issues I need to get resolved!

[Kafn8td]

I don't think there is a "mark" that says you will have the hesitaion issue. I have made over 525 and never had it. I did have it at 390hp to the wheels (stock - 700 miles and a tune). It was resolved with a new tune. Currently I can induce it in my car, usually in 3rd gear when I am messing with someone. I will jump on it, pull away from them, get out of it, let them catch up and then get back in it I can cause it. I owuld be more inclined to think it was caused by something that was changed.

[OrangeFox]

PPRV???

[Kafn8td]

Sorry, Parallel Pressure Relief Valve! Think 2 pumps.
Stalling issue shouldn't be a PPRV issue. Did you get the whole BAP thing resolved?

[wysiwyg]

Dan,

Stay with the Cobra. Why? My '93 does not have cruise control or tilt wheel for the long drives. My Cobra can out handle most older Mustangs because of what Ford has done since the Mustang came out in '65. BBC goes fast in the straight line but when it comes to the end of the road you still have to turn left or right and you know how they turn.

Cobra
A/C, Leather Powered Seats, AM/FM/CD Player, Cruise Control, Tilt Wheel, 400+hp, 4 wheel disc brakes, IRS, etc.

BBC
Vinyl/Cloth Seats, Heater, roll down windows A/C, AM Radio, Power Steering??, Drum Brakes maybe powered, no tilt wheel, no cruise control, etc.

[HELLFYR]

ok... someone educate me on this PPRV thing... how does it work?

[Cobrizo]

Hey there buddy, I think you'd be sorry if you sold your hotrod, I really do. After losing your '04, I remember how excited you were thinking about replacing it and then finally getting your beautiful 10th! Get that darn thing fixed, get rid of that PPV or whatever that is (glad I'm not the only one who didn't know what that is) and DRIVE IT! You didn't buy it to let it sit in the garage.

[BlownSVT]

I wouldn't sell it either. YOu have alot of time and money invested to get where you are now you are better off just working on the problem. you already have more muscle than all the old muscle cars anyway. I say hang with it and get it out on the road man.

[OrangeFox]

Sorry, Parallel Pressure Relief Valve! Think 2 pumps.
Stalling issue shouldn't be a PPRV issue. Did you get the whole BAP thing resolved?
Haven't had time to even look at it, will probably get to it on Saturday before the meeting!

[DNeinstadt]

Thanks for the opinions guys. I drove it tonight and dang near put it in a lightpole it hesitated so bad. I will start by draining the gas tank down the "natural" way.

Anyone got a camera with a good battery? I'm thinking 2nd gear 6000rpm burnout until she's out of fuel or tire.....

Dan

[Kafn8td]

Let me know when you want to either do the burnout or drop the tank. We can drop it pretty full with the garage helpers you have. I did my Jeep with it on the full mark using a floor jack.
The way I understand the PPRV is it is basically a check valve that keep the gas from flowing backwards. And bypasses when you slam the throttle clsed. This is supposed to keep the fuel rail pressure form spiking.

[DNeinstadt]

That's what I hear as well. I drove it last night and I'll try to put some "muddin' miles" on it by going to work with it.

If you've driven past my work lately, you know what I'm talking about. Major sand pit here..

I have a trans jack we can use in the garage.. Maybe we can work on it soon. Otherwise you may see another ad for a Cobra soon. (Shakes his fist in the air menacingly)

Dan

[Kafn8td]

I have right of first refusal. Here is how I would do it, after completely going over the motor and making sure everything is right, clean the MAF etc...Start at the end and work backwards. What was the last mod that you put on when it worked right?
1. Pull out the KB FRPS disc thingy - this has caused issues on some cars.
2. Test the FRPS - it doesn't need to be blown to cause issues, it could have a very small hole in it.
3. Check everything on the BAP, maybe even pull it off and see if it still does it (use your SCT to datalog)
4. Pull the PPRV.

You should be able to complete all of this in a few hours.

[DNeinstadt]

Honestly, my car has never ran right. That's why it's never seen the 1/4 mile.

Remember it did this with the "old" stage 3 blower? Back at the townhouse when we "road tested it" it ran like crap BEFORE the 60lb injectors and everything we did at the new house.

Hopefully the PPRV has been the culprit in the first place. :)

We'll see. I'm dedicated to fix it or bust (it)!

And if I keep it, time for the wideband.

Dan

[HELLFYR]

Ok... did some research on this PPRV mod last night.

Why isn't anyone concerned that the rubber replacement hose (that replaces the corrogated stuff in the tank) is going to deteriorate when soaked constantly in fuel.
That would always have me wonderin. Is rubber fuel hose petroleum proof? I thought they had an inner liner that was but the external of the hose was good old every day rubber, which will over time deteriorate when an oil based product is applied.

Think I'd be looking for stainless lines for the mod personally... but that's just me.

:shrug:

On another note, do these cars standardly idle a little rough. Almost like there is a light lope to the idle? This being the first terminator I ever drove, am not sure of what all to expect.

[Kafn8td]

You can get submersible lines that won't break down.

[Shadowgray03]

My tank hasnt been opened yet so I still have my PPRV.

I just skimmed the thread since it seemed to take a twist to the non technical side so if this was brought up, forgive me.

How much boost are you making Dan? And when is it hesitating? One thing that comes to mind is the cobra only has a 2 bar MAP sensor so if you are running ~15psi you will peg the MAP sensor causing a momentary lean spike. Have your tuner bump the MAP counts up from 980 to 1020ish and that way the EEC will never see the sensor peg and thus maintain a more consistant fuel pressure.

[DNeinstadt]

14+lbs of boost. It hesitates between shifts. It always has but is WAY more pronounced now with the BAP, stage 4 blower, single blade TB, etc.

Dan

[Kafn8td]

Larry, he has us on the HSF0 baseline tune because it has the MAP sensor max voltage fix that is one of the fixes that eliminate the hesitation issue that some folks are complaining about.

[Shadowgray03]

Ok... did some research on this PPRV mod last night.

Why isn't anyone concerned that the rubber replacement hose (that replaces the corrogated stuff in the tank) is going to deteriorate when soaked constantly in fuel.
Gates makes a line that is specifically designed to be submersed in gas and as you likely would have guessed its expensive too, like $15 a foot.

[HELLFYR]

There's my answer... thanks... now hopefully I will never NEED to know that. :)

[moddedmystic]

Dan what do you have your BAP set at? My tuner told me to turn mine down to help with the hesitation. Mine was at 50% now its at 20%. I think all (or most)tuners set up there custom tunes with the Map scalar maxed out. Mine was set for 4.99 volts and still had the hesitation. But that was before the PPRV mod. To me the gain you get in duty cycle alone is worth removing it. I'm putting some break in miles on the DFX right now and havent had a chance to run it through the gears yet. Soon as I do I'll post up.
And who knows maybe the BAP does have something to do with it. I know JDM recommends pumps over the BAP. Does anybody know somebody who's running a high boost car with pumps instead of the BAP that does or doesnt have the hesitation?
~Mark

[DNeinstadt]

I'm at 30%, where James/ED at RWTD recommended. I'm willing to try things out, not going to give up, even though it's seeming to be really easy to....

Dan

[Kafn8td]

They recommended to me 20%. Maybe turn it down a bit.

p.s. don't be a quiter.

[DNeinstadt]

Quitters never prosper.

Oh, that's cheaters.... hmm....

Dan

[Kafn8td]

It's not cheating if you don't get caught.

[DNeinstadt]

Boy if I could only read that chapter of your "black book". It seems to be working so well for you. Is that why you haven't responded to the marriage threads?! :)

Dan

[HELLFYR]

Maybe a dumb idea... any chance you have something shorting out to the BAP causing it to shut down on ya under acceleration? Would be nice if it were just a quick little electrical fix.

Eh.... what do I know. I am a rookie terminator junkie.

Rod

[Kafn8td]

Boy if I could only read that chapter of your "black book". It seems to be working so well for you. Is that why you haven't responded to the marriage threads?! :)

Dan

not sure if I have the expertise here...we have only been together since Chryse was 15 and I was 17. :rockit:

[DNeinstadt]

Rod, Perhaps but it was a problem before the BAP was installed.. :(

[Kafn8td]

oh! I thought it started after all those mods. Well then that makes me take a different approach.

[DNeinstadt]

Rick, I thought it started when we test drove it after the stage 3 blower after we chased down the UPS guy in Anoka??

It's been weird ever since then.

I should stay stock, DC is the MAN!

[Kafn8td]

That Brown truck was fast...you think it might have been Dale driving the truck?

It wasn't that bad back then though. was it?

[Shadowgray03]

Did RWTD give you some specifics to log? From what I remember there are quite a few small tweaks that can be done toa few tables to help with hesitation but are generally very vehicle specific so require some specific datalogging.

[DNeinstadt]

RWTD has done 3 tunes SINCE I've logged the fuel data tables for them. They seem to get slightly better each time but are still unsafe to drive.

Last night I had a 2-3 second hesitation between 2 and 3. I almost punched through the windsheild but luckily it picked up after 2-3 seconds of falling flat on it's face..

Let's just say a certain minivan thinks they are fast now..

Dan

[Video_Master]

Who is doing the tunes for you, Ed or James? 2 - 3 seconds between the shifts is horrible. I have about 1 second maybe a little less the second that I hit the gas again after shifting. I have not had the MAP sensor maxed out cause last I was told by James is they do not have the fix for the AMZ1 computer yet.

[Shadowgray03]

RWTD has done 3 tunes SINCE I've logged the fuel data tables for them. They seem to get slightly better each time but are still unsafe to drive.

Last night I had a 2-3 second hesitation between 2 and 3. I almost punched through the windsheild but luckily it picked up after 2-3 seconds of falling flat on it's face..

Let's just say a certain minivan thinks they are fast now..

DanWow, I didnt realize the hesitation you were talking about was that bad. I did suffer from a problem just like what you are describing however back in the fall of 2003 with a Chip from Jerry. I was super pissed and Jerry just shrugged and told me it was the car.

Long story short a few months later I was chatting with Brian@SCT and he mentioned that Jerry gave him the same file he used for my car for another KB cobra and that car had the same problem. Turns out part of the tune data was corrupt and Brian offered to get me all set up with a clean tune etc.

[Kafn8td]

Who is doing the tunes for you, Ed or James? 2 - 3 seconds between the shifts is horrible. I have about 1 second maybe a little less the second that I hit the gas again after shifting. I have not had the MAP sensor maxed out cause last I was told by James is they do not have the fix for the AMZ1 computer yet.
Talk to Ed, they can max the table out, they just use the HSF0 base as the tune instead of the AMZ1.

[Smooth]

That Brown truck was fast...you think it might have been Dale driving the truck?
If it was fast it wasn't Dale driving :googleeye He's a traitor now!
You wanna fix it D9, just get a stock yellow Cobra and hang on! :haha:

[DNeinstadt]

Hang on as I flip it intentionally? :P

Ed has been doing most of my tunes but I had James do the last one (one before the one I'm on NOW) and I had to call and talk to him directly. He wrote the tune while we were on the phone and I tried it the same day. :(

I'll try to report back on the PPRV thing, it seems to have fixed a lot of guys' cars..

Dan

[Video_Master]

Talk to Ed, they can max the table out, they just use the HSF0 base as the tune instead of the AMZ1.


Cool, thanks Rick.

[HELLFYR]

Dan I have no idea how far your car is modded, but I would assume if you stay out of the boost you can run it WITHOUT the tune.

If so, why not whipe out the tune, drive moderately and see if it still falls on its face.
If it doesn't, you have your answer (the tune is bad), if it does, it let's you know that no matter how much tuning you do, there is something else physically wrong that needs fixing first.

So when it falls on its face, is that with the clutch released or pushed in when it dies?
And is the engine actually dying, (is the instrument cluster going dark?)
This is a KNOWN problem on the mach 1s. I wonder if it crept into the cobra world too.
On the Mach 1's it was ENTIRELY MAF related. Most of the time the result of a CAI that was installed incorrectly, or shifted after installation causing a really screwed up reading across the MAF wires. Anyway, the computer would actually shut the car down thinking the engine was running way to lean. I'm talking physically shutting the car off while you are driving. (I had it happen a couple times in my old Mach 1... it is a very unnerving feeling). It always happened with the clutch pushed in though. Popping the clutch (so basically push starting the car) and the engine would fire back up and go. I readjusted the MAF and the CAI and it never did it again.

Dunno if that helps or not... just thought I'd share.

Rod

[Kafn8td]

If it was fast it wasn't Dale driving :googleeye He's a traitor now!
If Ford would provide some support to Roush, Yates and Woods he probably wouldn't be changing brands next year. But when rivals have to pool their ideas (which worked very well btw) to stay competitive, something is wrong. 9 Ford teams (8 next year) compared to 15 Dodge teams, 26 Chevy teams and 6 (?) Toyota teams. You have to hand it to Roush and Yates for being as competitive as they are - 2 in the top 10 and 6 in the top 20 is pretty good.

[DNeinstadt]

Rod, it's not happening if I drive like semi-normal human. It's when I try to break warp speed. Then it slows down to 88mph because I think it's missing plutonium.

At 88mph the dash speedo does some really weird things:
http://grove.ufl.edu/~locutus/Pic/Bttf2/temp_display.jpg

Then I have 2 second hesitation and this happens:
http://grove.ufl.edu/~locutus/Pic/Bttf2/departure2.jpg

I check the wideband and see this, which I know is REALLY lean:
http://grove.ufl.edu/~locutus/Pic/Bttf2/119119.jpg

So it is obviously a fuel issue. I think I might have hurt the car though, check this pic out:
http://grove.ufl.edu/~locutus/Pic/Bttf2/arrival1.jpg

This is what I looked like last night:
http://grove.ufl.edu/~locutus/Pic/Bttf2/thebarn.jpg

I'm so pissed off, I just hope this doesn't happen to me like the last guy that tried to remove the PPRV.
http://svtoatc.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=464&stc=1

[Shadowgray03]

LOL, slow day at the office Dan? :)

[DNeinstadt]

Dirty injected crack into my dentures this AM..

[Kafn8td]

haha best laugh all day.

[Video_Master]

Rod, on our cars the higer modded ones we can't run just on the stock tune cause of all the mods like the MAFia and the 60# injectors. It would really screw things up.

The hesitation on these cars comes when you are at WOT, then shift and goto WOT again then that instant is when the hesitation happens. I will have to watch my fuel pressure gauge next time I do that and have the hesitation happen to see if there is a fuel spike on the rails or not. I have the fuel pressure sender right under the FRPS.

[HELLFYR]

I haven't had my car to WOT yet much less shift at that point. LOL

I am envisioning this (correct me here where I go astray):

You are pummeling the car... fuel is at the back of the tank in constant pickup to the pumps. Now you shift. Law of conservation of momentum means that the fuel sloshes forward in the tank. What if the fuel sloshes OFF the pickup points? Now you are drawing air into the fuel system... meaning the engine detects a lean condition once that "bubble" reaches the burn point in the cylinder... then the fuel repositions itself at the rear of the tank once the clutch re-engages again. Then there is a delay while the system re-pressurizes with fuel. Then away you go again.

So... does it do the same thing with an absolutely full tank of fuel versus a partial or more likely 1/4 or less tank?

The fact you say it was occurring before as well as after your slew of mods leads me to believe it is something basic like this. Maybe a flaw in ALL terminator fuel pickup designs.

It is amplified after the mods because the BAP is drawing a larger air bubble faster into the system.

I'm going back to work now... the very thought makes me dizzy....
:runaway:

{I'm a computer engineer, not mechanical so cut me some slack}

Rod

[DNeinstadt]

Rod, I hear what you're saying but I think Ford's engineers fixed this issue and we'd have it all over.

Also, I'll restate what I've stated a few times already in this thread. Check it out:

OTHERS HAVE REMOVED THE PPRV AND IT'S FIXED THE HESITATION

I'm going to try to resolve this. :)

Dan

[Kafn8td]

The red rocket ran fine on the stock tune, 60lb injectors, MAFia, BAP and all the other mods. I knew better than to get into boost, but it idled and drove fine. I'm sure getting into boost would cause it to go boom though.

[HELLFYR]

k

I don't plan to take my car past about 450 rwhp so I hopefully will not encounter this issue.

me

[Kafn8td]

There seems to be 3 or 4 fixes -
FRPS - guys have had small holes, they replaced it and it fixed the problem
KB FRPS disc - guys that have it removed it and it fixed the hesitation
Tune - worked for me
PPRV - worked for modded mystic

I believe our tanks are baffled to eliminate any sloshing issues.

[HELLFYR]

Cool. Still learning more about these beasts every day (even by the minute at times).

Rod

[DNeinstadt]

Me too. Like how much psi (pissed off stocky idiots) does it take to destroy a PPRV OR FRPS OR an '03 Cobra. :)

Not meaning to snap at you Rod, just pissy about my car. :P

Dan

[Kafn8td]

ya big baby, it will take us a couple of hours to fix the problem - jeez.

[Video_Master]

Rod, mine happens even on a full tank of gas.

[DNeinstadt]

:P Ok.

[Video_Master]

Why not just keep the car and slap a turbo in front of that supercharger and see what this thing can really do.

[DNeinstadt]

BOOOOOM!

[Video_Master]

Not necessarily. As long as you do it safely there would be no KABLOOIE involved.

[HELLFYR]

Me too. Like how much psi (pissed off stocky idiots) does it take to destroy a PPRV OR FRPS OR an '03 Cobra. :)

Not meaning to snap at you Rod, just pissy about my car. :P

Dan


:cry:
Now my feelings are hurt... a direct attack... ban thyself.

Yeah right. Gonna take more than that... bring it.

hehe

[No1Ford]

Sell it and buy your big block mustang, for lets say 10,000$-15,000. Bring down to the frame and back$7500, $6500 paint on the high side, motor $12000+ little thing here and there $3500 = 45,500 still less than the 20007 shelby. Plus its worth about $60,000 to $75,000. when is a 03-04 cobra going to be worth that? Edit $4500 sup. work. $50,000.

[No1Ford]

Oh ya do them thing you self at probably half the cost.

[DNeinstadt]

Sell it and buy your big block mustang, for lets say 10,000$-15,000. Bring down to the frame and back$7500, $6500 paint on the high side, motor $12000+ little thing here and there $3500 = 45,500 still less than the 20007 shelby. Plus its worth about $60,000 to $75,000. when is a 03-04 cobra going to be worth that? Edit $4500 sup. work. $50,000.

LOL you didn't read my original post... I didn't say Big Block Mustang...

[Smooth]

Chevelle lover!

[No1Ford]

LOL you didn't read my original post... I didn't say Big Block Mustang...
Oh that make it interesting then. :)

[No1Ford]

Chevelle lover!
Better not, There gay , He's getting married. :gayfight:

[DNeinstadt]

Teehee!

[Doodler]

My car falls on its face an entire 1/4 run... but after some rigorious trouble shooting I've determined that my car is slow and I can't drive. :)

[No1Ford]

Chevelle lover!

We welcome ANY Ford powered vehicle.

Dan
__________________
SVTOA-TC Chapter Director
Site Administrator

Ford power vehicles only. :splat2:

[Grenade]

My car falls on its face an entire 1/4 run... but after some rigorious trouble shooting I've determined that my car is slow and I can't drive. :)
Have you tried replacing the driver, to see what happens? Did that fix the hesitation?

[Doodler]

Have you tried replacing the driver, to see what happens? Did that fix the hesitation?

Not yet. I'll be at Rock Falls on Sept 30th. So if you want to "fix the hesitation", feel free.

[Grenade]

Not yet. I'll be at Rock Falls on Sept 30th. So if you want to "fix the hesitation", feel free.
I was kidding. However, if I'm racing that day, {theres a chance} I'd love to drive your Sn 95Cobra. I've never driven one.{If you're offering}.

[F8LBITE]

Hey Dan, just do what you always tell me, bring it to Johnny Z. :splat2:

[DNeinstadt]

I don't know he can help me but I'm thinking of that!!

[Grenade]

Hey Dan, just do what you always tell me, bring it to Johnny Z. :splat2:
Bring it to Ricky M and Shawnny E!! We'll Do it for free. Just between you and me.

[DNeinstadt]

Hmm.. I like the way you think. It's in the works..

Dan