Hypothetically speaking of course

[Shooter]

Lets imagine for a minute that you had say.... an 03 Cobra Convertable.... The thing is completly 100% stock.

Now lets say you wanted to make it insanely quick. Or even less than that... you want to make it a low 10's car...

Lastly, lets go with money is no concern...

What would you do ? Hypothetically speaking of course.... :)


How would your replies differ if you were to make it a "Track car"...?

[Chryse]

Easy...(as long as money is of no concern). Solid Rear Axle, Twin Turbo set up. Big Slicks. When tranny and clutch are gone (shouldn't take long) upgrade.

[DNeinstadt]

By quick I assume you mean you want better acceleration. FAST = top end, quick = acceleration.

Drag racing (drag strip track):
insanely quick: Chryse seems to have learned a lot about cars. Right on - twin turbo, solid axle, slicks, powerglide tranny.

Low 10's: New Kenne Bell or whipple Blower, live axle, slicks = 10's.

$ is no object - buy a "white body" = race car body manufactured strictly for racing. Much less weight and no "BS"

Twisties (OPEN track) car:

All out suspension, brakes FIRST, rip out seats, lose extra weight, safety (cage, 5 pt harnesses, etc). Different tires... I'm sure Cobra-R can chip in more here.

Kinda what you were looking for?

Dan

[silversnake]

Shooter,

Here's my take:

Sell the vert and start with a coupe - the extra 200 lbs is worth 30+ horsepower where you're going. Then add a good CAI, complete exhaust (including L/T's), go with the Kenne Bell (biggest you can get), install a modified CPU like the Anderson Motorsports piece, get a good wet NOS system, go to a live axle with big gears 4.30's (might as well have a 9" built while you're at it), put a Viper T56 in along with a dual disk clutch, new aluminum drive shaft and SFI shield, torque arm rear suspension, drag springs and shocks, and slicks. Don't forget to pull out everything you can - battery in the trunk, 1/4 tank of gas, skinnies on the front, and so forth. That will get you in the 10's but you'll probably need a cage to prove it - Quicker costs LOTs more - especially if you don't want to break every other run and you want to live to tell about it.

Money no object - Dan's right - get a body in white or an early Fox body and build it from that - I'd use a stroked SVO Windsor with turbos and juice.

Road car - sell the Cobra and buy a 2000R - you can't build it for what you can buy it for. Build on that to your heart's content.

Best,

Dave

If money is no object - Dan's route

[Cobra-R]

I am going to address the "track car" part of the question since I am familular with that.

1, Safety first. If there is a limited budget, put it twards safety items first. Brake pads, stainless steel hoses, roll cage, harnesses, ect.

2, Learn to drive. Most gains can be made by learning to control what you have already. The Cobra is a very heavy pig, once you learn to go fast in that, you are half way there.

3, Remove weight that isn't neccessary in the particular car. Depending on how far you specifically want to go with this car will determine what all you remove.

4, Add full length subframe connectors, that is your number one bang for the buck mod(non safety related mod I mean). Then go for durability: differential cooler, larger intercooler, add larger engine oil cooler, ect.

5, As you identify deficiencies or charactoristics in the handling of the car, correct them. Keep in mind where you ultimately want to take this car in what you do with your mods. If you are going to upgrade the shocks, get them setup so they can be adjusted to acommidate for future mods to the suspension or for coil overs for example.

I agree a vert isn't a good platform (nor is a 03/04 Cobra in general) for a all out track car, so keep this in mind if you are considering taking it to the extreme. The Cobra is a very good car to learn in. I have been told before (and I believe it) if you can learn to drive a Mustang fast, you can drive virtually anything else very fast.

Brian

PS: Remember, adding power is the very last thing you should address, a fast driver in a underpowered car will beat a average driver in a powerful car anyday/anytime.

[Shooter]

All good points, I appreciate the input from all of you.

Just not real sure that I want to lose the convertable portion <heh> Then again, as long as I have it I'll be about 120mb heavier than any coupe. Looks like I'll have to think on this for a bit before making the final decision unless I can find a good one at American Ford or something.

-Steven

Update: I just looked a little closer at the specs on the Cobra R and its not all that much quicker than the 03/04 Cobra... yet nearly twice the cost. I suspect that with the diffference of 25,000 I'd be willing to bet that someone could build one equal to if not better and have some change coming in the process.

then again, I don't really know the Cobra R's.

[SSHFTY1]

wow that is offly techy for me. wow I need my interpreter, dan n where are you, i'm getting scared here.

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by Shooter

Update: I just looked a little closer at the specs on the Cobra R and its not all that much quicker than the 03/04 Cobra... yet nearly twice the cost. I suspect that with the diffference of 25,000 I'd be willing to bet that someone could build one equal to if not better and have some change coming in the process.

then again, I don't really know the Cobra R's.

In a straight line, the 03 and 00R will be very comparable, on the track the R will totally kill a 03. The 00R is not a great bang for the buck track car, there are cheaper alternatives. Personally I think the 95R is a better track car if setup properly than the 00R.

It all depends on what you want to do with the car, I personally think the best scenario is to have a dedicated track car and not expose your daily driver to the track all the time. (this is assuming you are going to be a hard core tracker)

Brian

[silversnake]

Brian,

I pretty much ditto what you said re: the Cobra R's - I thought the 95's were essentially impossible to get hold of though, and there are some 2000's still available at issue prices or in some cases less.

The idea of a track car and a street car is always the best one - that way you get what is best for each. In the long run, it may not be that much more expensive, assuming you have someplace to store and work on the track car and it is either minimally streetable or you have a tow rig and trailer available.

A person could probably get pretty close to a 95R by starting with a used 95GT and building on that with engine, trans, body (cage and subframes minimally), and suspension/brake/whell/tire upgrades. 95's can be gotten pretty cheap and are available down south in decent condition - say 5K for the car and 15-20K to build it on a budget. If someone can do their own work - quite a bit cheaper than that.

Dave

[cobraboy325]

When at the apple valley car show I spoke withthe man who owned the R for about an hour and he also owned an 03 Cobra he said that hands down that R would toast his 03 cobra he says that for insurance purposes everything was under-rated on the car when he first bought the car he said that it dynoed at 485. since his 03 cobra dynoed at around 380 he said that the R was unbelievably faster. he also said that on a skidpad they got that car doing just over a G in a turn before the tires even broke loose, now thats just plain suspension. I think that to build a car like that you are just about replacing ever part in the car and for that kind of money you could go to like fordparts.com and buy a mustang that has been in an accident and completely rebuild it from the ground up, and it wont cost you the $30,000 to throw away most of the stock 03 cobra parts. Just a thought and some past research.
Brian

[Shooter]

Where I'm going...

I don't think seriously that I'll become some sponsored driver or anything. I think that I like the driving portion the most no matter what the car made be. I like the drift, I like taking whatever car I have to its limits whether that means the fastest lap or not is largely irrelevant <sp?> to me.

Mainly its about having a great time at the track.

This is not meant to belittle anyones comments on this subject as I appreciate all of the input in this regard. I have come away from this with a lot more knowledge based on your experiences and the things that you have learned over time. And for that I thank you.

I now have a list of things that can be done to make my car "better" and safer for track use, which is always paramount in my book.

-Steven

[SSHFTY1]

will somebody please talk english....:confused:

[wysiwyg]

Track car - skip the '03/'04 Cobra, my 1993 stock Cobra out handled all of them when i was in Colorado. We passed more supercharged Mustangs at 6,500 feet elevation with my normally asprirated 5.0L stock 1993. Handling is where it is at.

Wieght is the biggest enemy of any racecar - track or strip. The lighter the car the better. Look at the 96-99 Cobra if you want to stay with the 4.6 4v, ('03/'04 Superchargedmotors have iron blocks) or look at the fox body cars to modify for track driving - they are lighter and with a 5.0L torque is there.

Safety first - I'm installing Hawk Performance brake pads - street/track HB-263N-650 part number. This is a biggest add for a track to do for the cheapest price. Tires are the next item to look at. Stock suspensions can do a lot of speed on the track which I could not beleive until I did it.

[Shooter]

I may have to get into a Fox. I think they look nice as a track car as well... and yes, looking nice is something that is important to me <heh>

Startign to look like my "Winter Project" is going to be slightly bigger than I had expected... but still "Do-able" :)


-Steven

[Cobra-R]

Rick,
If you havn't replaced the front brake lines with stainless steel lines yet, do it. You are sitting on a bomb waiting to explode until you do.

This is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth:

The best track car (assuming you wana stay with a Mustang) would be to build up a body in white ($1300) and have a donar car for all the misc parts you will need. Without going into depth, this would save a person a ton of work.

Johns going to argue this, but a pushrod engine is where you want to be in this sport. The mod motors are complex, expensive, and have shown a lack of durability without alot of machine work.

Like was eluded to above, safety, durability, suspension, then Hp should be the order of mods. Hp is very low on the totem poll in importance. Some of you in here have seen my in-car video of me behind a 500+ rwhp Z06 vette at road america last fall with my 285 hp 95 Cobra.

I am serious when I say this, if you really want a bang for the buck car that is close to track ready, get a used Z06. They are relatively cheap and will be more car than a very modded Mustang.

Do some events, learn to drive, then decide where you want to go with this sport. It is a blast, the people are great, but it can be expensive.

Brian

PS: Dan C,
Translation: Drive a light, well handling car on a track and don't hit anything. :50cal: :grin: :grin:

[Cobra-R]

Originally posted by wysiwyg
Track car - skip the '03/'04 Cobra, my 1993 stock Cobra out handled all of them when i was in Colorado. We passed more supercharged Mustangs at 6,500 feet elevation with my normally asprirated 5.0L stock 1993. Handling is where it is at.



Rick,
The 03/04's are a pretty decent handling car, you are giving yourself too little credit, you outdrove then, not out handled them.

The Hawk pads you mentioned, are they the hawk blues? If so, only install them before hitting the track, they are killer on rotors when they are not at temperature (ie: street driving)

Brian

[Shooter]

Looks like I'll be using my Cobra for a bit then while I work on building up something that is more track worthy...

I'm having difficulty finding one of these mysterious "White body" car shells to build on.

Any ideas, comments or suggestions...? Much appreciation to all of you.

-Steven

[silversnake]

Shooter,

The catch on body in white is that it can only be used as a race car - can't be titled for street use.

Here's a possible link for you to check out:

http://www.classicdesignconcepts.com/cdc_news/cdc_news_026.html

It's got a 2002 date, but it is Classic Design Concepts (the guys that make the aftermarket shaker hood) and they can probably help you get a lead on one if you are really interested.

Dave

[Cobra-R]

http://www.classicdesignconcepts.com/ Not sure what the availability is right now with production stopping on the mustangs in order to gear up for the 05's

Brian

PS: Here is the specific page on thier site: http://www.classicdesignconcepts.com/cdc_news/cdc_news_026.html

[DNeinstadt]

I love it when we confuse Dan C. I find it funny. BE COOL!

[Cobrizo]

Sure is interesting to me! You guys really know your stuff, I'm just going along for the ride, so to speak, trying to learn as much as I can by reading and listening and asking questions. I am very impressed with all the knowledge everyone has!

Pam

[Shooter]

I'm looking hard at the GT-R concept. It has been said that you can get one built for under 40,000.

Again, I fall back on what it looks like as well as how its said to perform.

Lastly, someone needs to smack me before I go do something like that.... :)

[Twitch]

tell ya what shooter, buy one for me, I will test drive it for ya, then you can decide if you want to buy one for yourself.

[Shooter]

Originally posted by Twitch
tell ya what shooter, buy one for me, I will test drive it for ya, then you can decide if you want to buy one for yourself.
I'd go for that... but that would require you to write up a full review with pics and video and possibly even an interview with your personal thoughts on the car... I'm thinking that might take up to much of your time. So I'll have to pass on this offer. Perhaps next time? :D

Really though, The problem is that they generally don't sell concepts... I'm sure they will make something out of it that will look nothing like the concept simply because the concept is just to prove some tech issues.

Would be nice if I could find that same body out there though as a "White" <Evil Grin>

-Steven